I changed to the Standard network type and down to 2000kbps and they work now. Not sure if they just decided to start working or if that had something to do with it. I’m going to change the speed back up a bit and back to Large and see if they fail again. They are cheap plugs with old wifi tech i do plan to replace them with Hue stuff so they are on a bridge and not on WiFi hogging up airtime with their slow speeds.
It could be the network change but more than likely it was the drop in data rates.
You’ve got the right track in playing with the speeds a bit. Older WiFi devices need lower data rates, especially IoT devices because they’re not exactly built for range or sending large amounts of data, so they don’t need super fast WiFi.
If you don’t mind, can you post your maximum data rate you’ve found to work consistently once you’ve tuned it to your satisfaction?
1 Like
Data rate didn’t have an effect at least not between 2,000 and 5,500. But switching to Large network instantly kills them. Standard/Small they almost immediately start working. Don’t know why because as far as what I see on the devices tab they don’t loose connection to the AP but they do loose internet. Something is being blocked by the Large network setting for sure.
Yes, that is to be expected:
Standard Network
- Security level: Low
- Filters: None Unoptimized type for small networks only. Since most networks fall into this category, and since it does not cause any discovery compatibility issues, this is the default type.
Large Network
- Security level: Low
- Filters: All broadcast/multicast traffic, except for MDNS, ARP, and ND Optimized for medium- to large-sized networks with hundreds to thousands of wireless devices. Discovery compatibility issues may arise if discovery protocols other than MDNS, IPv4 ARP, and IPv6 ND are utilized.
That is from the KB article WRT Network Types
You’ll definitely want the Small/Standard network type. Perhaps down the road, switch them to an IoT network type. The data rates are not specific to the different networks, however. They apply to all APs with the same color code.
What about a WiFi plug is filtered with the Large network type? As far as i knew the WiFi plugs that are internet connected and using an account based control are using multicast are they? I didn’t have issues with any other device (Echos, Thermostats, Network Printer, etc) only this group of 5 or so WiFI outlets.
As far as your other question. Data rate wasn’t my issue and i set it back to auto with no issue. It was all related to using the Large network type. Would it be possible to add customizable network types in the future? Say for those who want to use the large network type for moderately sized networks but not block devices like this?
It’s pretty difficult to tell because each IoT type device will have different protocols. In this case, my guess is that:
- Cell phone uses the app to discover the device
- Cell phone configures smart plug
- Cell phone then waits for the smart plug to join the network
- This could be using some type of broadcast protocol that gets filtered by the Large Network type that is not listed in the exceptions in my previous post
- Because the app and the lights can’t see each other, they abort, assuming an incorrect PSK or other issue preventing connection to WiFi. This way, you can take another shot at configuring them without having to factory default them or something.
Bottom line, it depends on the protocol being used to ensure the device is on the network between the app and the device itself. It’s very much device specific which is why you didn’t have problems with other devices.
Thats the thing these were already configured. There was no discovery happening here they were simply connecting to a known network already. They were controlled via Alexa using a web based skill connected to the account not via any type of local control. I also understand that this is in no way an Alta problem. They are $5 WiFi plugs with crap WiFi hardware. Just a curious question at this point.
As far as your other question. Data rate wasn’t my issue and i set it back to auto with no issue. It was all related to using the Large network type. Would it be possible to add customizable network types in the future? Say for those who want to use the large network type for moderately sized networks but not block devices like this?
Good to know it was exclusively the network type. Although I wouldn’t drop data rate out of the picture, time will tell.
The network types are simply presets, doing work that would traditionally be the responsibility of VLANs, your router, and firewalls. They’re simply a convenient preset so you don’t have to establish new VLANs, firewall rules, etc. There’s no subnetting or anything like that involved. That being said, custom network types could be something we look at in the future.
If this is something you’re really wanting, I suggest creating a feature request for visibility and allow others to vote.
1 Like
Makes more sense now. I was unaware it added firewall rules in a sense. I thought the types where more on the wireless optimization side of things i was unaware of the effect it had on what traffic was allowed as well. Figured that wouldn’t be found in the WiFI settings. Makes sense as to why I was seeing the devices were connected to the AP. They were connected but their traffic was being blocked.
seems like its “Helping” a little too much. I don’t like the idea of only having 4-5 options and not knowing exactly what each is doing. They are applying filtering rules that we cannot see. if you want to help and make things simple why not have each rule individually an on/off option split into the 5 categories of whats suggested for the different types of networks? @Alta-Matt_v2
That would be nice. I agree it’s hard to see what it getting filtered the only real way is try the option and see what doesn’t work. But on a network with DNS blockers and firewall it’s tough to see who is blocking what. So maybe either more clarity on rules or even a log of what is being filtered?
1 Like
even when I enable bypass filter, stuff is being filtered…
I stopped using any filtering. I have a firewall and DNS blocking, I don’t need APs acting as a firewall too. Maybe this should be removed from the APs and just saved for when there is a dedicated gateway/firewall. Again maybe for a basic network this is nice to have for some but running it with a firewall the APs just seem to be doing a little to much.
exactly, I dont have any filters on either, turned on bypass filters because I also don’t want my AP’s to be acting as a 2nd firewall. Common things most normal people have on home networks like airprint capable printer or roku streaming box, wireless lights cannot communicate. Yes they are iOT devices but they require communication on local network.
Agree. I love the APs they work great as APs but the filtering and stuff needs to be saved for a gateway.
https://help.alta.inc/support/solutions/articles/150000095297-different-network-types
Is a great resource for details on the different network types. TL;DR of that is if you have a Standard network type and haven’t enabled any filtering, there should be no filtering of the WiFi traffic at all. Obviously, nothing is mandatory. The various network types are designed to streamline simple networks as you’ve pointed out. These aren’t really designed for the people in this thread (highly technical); more for integrator installs, basic SOHO and the like.
More technical people such as yourselves will spin up a VLAN, firewall as necessary, then create a new AltaPass network with that VLAN. Now, imagine asking your mom to do that. I can’t speak for all elderly moms, but mine would throw her phone at my head 
(not kidding, it’s happened). If you ask yourself if a particular would be beneficial for a mom/grandma who doesn’t know, nor care what a VLAN is, then that’s probably who that feature is designed for.
Thats what “Advanced” settings sections are for.